31. On Playing the Long Game with Dorie Clark

Overview

On this episode, I was honored to be joined by Dorie Clark to discuss her latest book, The Long Game, that was released on September 21, 2021. If you are seeking to build a sustainable, enduring, fulfilling career from decade to decade, The Long Game is a must on your reading list! And in this conversation, we delve into why Dorie’s concepts have such application to building Sustainable Ambition.

In the book, Dorie demonstrates how doing away with short term thinking and instead taking the long view can help us achieve any goal we set out for ourselves. Anything is possible if you have the courage and strategic patience, as Dorie says, to play the long game. Dorie shows us the way from making the time to put against the goals that will fulfill you to the strategies to win at playing the long game to tips to keep the faith.

In our conversation here, we talk about being realistic about the length of time it takes to reach our goals, how the long game can take courage yet also be freeing, the importance of setting a vision, how long-term thinking and the strategies Dorie lays out apply to any stage in one’s career, and much more.

Thanks so much for your incredible work and being on to share your insights with us, Dorie! I loved the conversation.

More about Our Guest

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50, and was honored as the #1 Communication Coach in the world at the Marshall Goldsmith Coaching Awards. She is a keynote speaker and teaches for Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and Columbia Business School. She is the author of Entrepreneurial You, which was named one of Forbes’ Top 5 Business Books of the Year, as well as Reinventing You and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine.

A former presidential campaign spokeswoman, Clark has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and consults and speaks for clients such as Google, Yale University, and the World Bank. She is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, a producer of a multiple Grammy-winning jazz album, and a Broadway investor.

Topics Covered

  • We start with Dorie sharing when she was inspired by the idea of being a long-term thinker. For her, she’s always been, but over time she saw and heard about examples that had her realize how much short-term thinking really stunts our potential. Her belief is that it is good to be intentional about reaching our goals and that it often takes time to reach them.

  • Dorie talks about how we often expect ideas to just “show up” and be clear from the start. But she says that things take shape through experiences over time.

  • We talk about passion and how neither of us loves the career advice to “follow your passion.” Instead Dorie in the book talks about a better path around “optimizing for interesting.” If anything, Dorie suggests lowering the bar. She notes BJ Fogg and the story in the book where he made even flossing his teeth as small a task as possible.

  • I noted that while the long game might be a harder path that to me it seems like it was also an empowering and freeing concept. Dorie agreed and shared that it’s helpful to give ourselves some grace. First, things often take longer than we think. We should investigate and learn how long success really takes. We shouldn’t be indolent forever if we need to take breaks or get thrown by life circumstances, but don’t let that throw you completely off track forever.

  • We delve into why it takes courage to take the long view as opposed to being short-term focused. Dorie shares the example of Amazon and how Jeff Bezos attributes the company’s success to his willingness to plan on a 7-year timeframe as opposed to the typical 3-year planning cycle used by most companies. There is something to be learned there!

  • I ask Dorie’s perspective on setting a vision vs. some who say to not think too far out. I tend to agree with Dorie’s counsel—have a sense of where you are going so you are aiming in the right direction and are directionally correct. Another benefit of having a vision, especially as we get later in our careers, is that when you have more demands on your time, you need to get clear on which activities to say yes to that are in line with your vision.

  • Dorie shares how liberating it can be to have a 10 or 20 year plan, because you don’t have to have it all figured out.

  • We go back to the book and where Dorie starts, which is to create space for strategic thinking. A good reminder from Dorie that it doesn’t have to take a ton of time, but you need to carve out some space for strategic planning be it in business or in life and for your career.

  • I ask about how The Long Game can apply to early stage careers vs. later stage careers. Dorie relates this to the idea of how much runway you have. Listen in to learn more about how Dorie defines this. She also says, “And so the key thing, at whatever age, whether you’re 30, whether you’re 55, is the way that you can build runway, buy runway for yourself, is to be thoughtful about cultivating your off time and your nights and weekends.”

  • We talk about the importance of doing experiments and leveraging the idea of 20% time. While I’ve known about this concept for some time, I appreciate how Dorie talks about it. And I think it can be an unlock for how to build a sustainable career and make career transitions.

  • I also wanted to get Dorie’s perspective on sunk cost and knowing when it’s time to throw in the towel.

  • What fuels Dorie’s multi-passionate life? Living the 20% time concept herself and keeping herself interested.

  • For managing one’s career from decade to decade, Dorie points to the idea of seeing our career as waves and applying her concept here to know when to start a new Learn, Idea, Connect, and Reap loop to maintain interest and relevance over the course of our careers.

Resources Mentioned

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31. On Playing the Long Game with Dorie Clark

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2021Kathy OnetoRight Aspiration, Right Effort, Right Success