66. On Smart Strategies to be Fulfilled at Work with Art Markman

Overview

Today I’m joined by Art Markman, a professor of psychology, human dimensions of organizations, and marketing and vice provost of continuing and professional education and new education ventures at the University of Texas at Austin. Art brings insights from cognitive science to a broader audience through his blogs at Psychology Today and Fast Company, as well as his radio show/podcast Two Guys on Your Head.

I wanted to have Art on the show because I kept running into his content from the above blogs and in Harvard Business Review. I then went on to read his books. I knew he’d have a lot of great insights to share on how to think about career management, be more fulfilled in our work, and how to work at our best, especially in today’s environment. Art didn’t disappoint.

We cover a lot of ground in this discussion, and Art offers a lot of great nuggets of wisdom on how to manage one’s career over time, feel more successful day-to-day, be more productive, and sustain oneself. I love the idea of starting meetings with a joy moment and the sneaky, smart tip to put a meeting with a “fake” person on your calendar to carve out thinking time. I’m doing both!

Art - thank you so much for being on and being willing to share your brain insights with all of us!

More About Our Guest

Art Markman is a professor of psychology, human dimensions of organizations, and marketing and vice provost of continuing and professional education and new education ventures at the University of Texas at Austin. He has written over 150 papers on topics including reasoning, decision making, and motivation. Art brings insights from cognitive science to a broader audience through his blogs at Psychology Today and Fast Company as well as his radio show/podcast Two Guys on Your Head. He is the author of several books including Smart Thinking, Smart Change, Brain Briefs, and Bring Your Brain to Work.

Topics Covered

  • We start by hearing from Art on what brought him to share his knowledge of cognitive science to the masses. You’ll hear that he, too, at mid-career wanted to have a bigger impact with his work. Find him at the resources below to learn more from Art beyond this episode.

  • Art shares why it’s important to keep your mind open to possibilities for one’s work and life. He says, “If you edit your life story in the forward direction, you are constraining it to whatever it is you can imagine. And I promise all of your listeners, the world is way more interesting than anything you can imagine.”

  • We discuss fostering curiosity and being willing to continually learn, trusting that the learning will be valuable at a later date even when you don’t know the immediate application of that learning. We hear later how Art learning to play the saxophone is one example of how he has done this.

  • When people push back saying, “I’ll never use this,” Art’s response is, “How do you know?” Art gives a great example of his own that illustrates this point.

  • We talk about what he means by Jazz Brain and being guided by both the Head and Heart. I love Art’s insight here and giving us all permission to lean into our intuition more. Since working in innovation, I believe strongly in the power of art and science, in what Art calls the rules and theory and gut feelings. Ideally, we can bring both into our work.

  • What can give us confidence in leaning into intuition and using our heart? Art says to think about anything as being subject to revision, just as software companies do with their releases. You can always adjust, so don’t be so afraid of going with your intuition, coupled with data and strategic thinking.

  • We jump next to talk about how to find sustainable success by leaning into knowing one’s core values in the moment. This is a core principle for Sustainable Ambition. We can change as people over time and that means our values can change over time, too. It’s also personal—one’s values are not necessarily the same as another person’s values. The definition of success is personal. Ask: What do I care about? Unhappiness with work usually points to a misalignment with one’s values.

  • I ask Art’s opinion about if we should think about work as just a “job.” I love Art’s insights and response here, and to me he speaks to the importance of taking ownership for our own fulfillment and engagement at work.

  • I ask Art to tell me where I’m wrong around that point of wanting people to take ownership of their own engagement at work vs. looking to their employers or bosses. Art goes on to say that it’s important for us to take responsibility for our own motivation at work—leaning into what’s called “an approach gap” vs. “an avoidance gap.” Simplifying here—an approach gap can be controlled better by you and is a more positive form of motivation. An avoidance gap can often be directed by the organization or your boss, which can cause stress and anxiety. Listen in to hear more! (30:28) A side note that this is likely why companies are leaning into purpose or why managers need to focus on shaping positive, shared goals for a group.

  • We then delve into productivity, with me asking Art a big, broad (likely not fair!) question on the topic. Art first points us to a richer definition of productivity and suggests we be more deliberate about where we spend our time, not just checking tasks off our to do lists, but making sure that what we do adds up to making a contribution and doing something that matters to us. He also champions making sure we’re not filling up our time so much that there isn’t space for what’s required to be creative, which is important in today’s work environment.

  • I love how Art brings up the idea of reminding people about finding joy in work by starting meetings with a joy moment.

  • Art shares tips on how to carve out time when it seems elusive. He advocates, and I do, too, to schedule it, put it on your schedule. And he shares a sneaky, smart tip, too! And he encourages us to speak up with our bosses if that is relevant to you.

  • Closing takeaway and tip - Invest in relationships. Invest in building those weak ties, especially now in a remote work world. They can really help sustain you! People being important to our happiness at work is becoming a core, strong theme here on the podcast!

Resources Mentioned

Thanks for Listening!

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66. On Smart Strategies to be Fulfilled at Work with Art Markman

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2022Kathy OnetoRight Success, Right Aspiration, Right Effort