62. On Finding Motivation in Loving the Journey with Ultra-marathoner Jack Hsueh

Overview

Today I’m joined by Jack Hsueh who is an ultra-marathoner who has run races like the Tahoe Rim Trail 100-mile race, Tor de Géants which is a 330km race in Italy running through the Alps (which takes about 6 days to run!), and the Western States 100. Jack does these events while managing his career and having a family.

I wanted to have Jack on to learn how participating in endurance events that require commitment, resilience, and grit helps inform how we might manage our life+work from decade to decade, which in our modern times is an endurance event, as well.

Building on Episode 54 with Dominic DeMarco, in this conversation with Jack we discuss finding motivation in loving the journey, the benefits of putting in the work, redefining success beyond the outcome, embracing failure, and how others support you along the way.

Jack - I loved our conversation! Thank you so much for sharing with us. You’ve given us a lot to think about and consider on how to apply your experiences to our own life+work journeys.

More About Our Guest

Jack Hsueh is an ultra-marathoner who has run races like the Tahoe Rim Trail 100-mile race, Tor de Géants which is a 330km race in Italy running through the Alps, and the Western States 100. Jack does these events while managing his career and having a family.

Jack is Director of Project Management at VEC, a construction technology services company in the Bay Area. He is passionate about developing and applying innovative tools that address the inefficiencies in the Architectural Engineering and Construction industry. One service that his company performs is to construct 3D models of buildings to find issues and resolve them before the contractor starts the physical building process. He works directly with clients to understand their pain points and finds unique solutions to their needs. He also provides business and project management guidance within the company by aligning strategic initiatives with the delivery of their services.

Topics Covered

  • We start with hearing a little bit about Jack’s work and home life. We learn that Jack pivoted in his career, and there are lessons in what he shares in the episode that can help others in that regard, like trusting in the effort put into developing your professional self and accepting that failure is a part of the process.

  • Jack introduces us to distance running and defines ultramarathons. He gives us some examples of the distances he’s run over time and what drew him to start running ultramarathons, which includes a love of the outdoors.

  • One interesting call out that I wasn’t able to discuss further with Jack was how he wasn’t able to sleep much when he ran the Tor de Géants which is a 330km race (~230 miles over 6 days!) in Italy running through the Alps with a lot of elevation. Because of the adrenaline, it’s hard to sleep. He only slept 5 hours! I found this interesting having just listened to a Cal Newport episode in which he talks about it being hard to turn ourselves off when we are really engaged in meaningful work. Even out on the trails this can happen. So, the question is how do we work with that and sustain ourselves at the same time? Jack has some lessons, and Newport’s podcast episode does, as well.

  • What does planning look like for these types of events? Like Dominic DeMarco in Episode 54, Jack didn’t plan at all for his first ultramarathon, but that’s changed. Yet, we hear that you can’t plan for it all and there aren’t always roadmaps to follow. What then? You have to learn into it.

  • How does Jack sustain himself out on the trail? Because he knows there will be low points, he’s learned to have fun along the way. There’s a lot that keeps him motivated despite hitting low points, that are expected and inevitable.

  • What happens if things don’t go as planned? It’s all about problem solving.

  • What does it take mentally? Persistence, trusting in the training, having support around you.

  • We talk about how Jack handles it if he hasn’t completed a race. It’s an interesting conversation around making choices around priorities and not seeing it as a failure.

  • Jack shares how he now thinks about success around these events. It’s not the completion of the race itself. Finishing is actually the bonus! Isn’t that interesting?!

  • What is it like to re-enter life after these events and what does recovery look like?

  • What does it take to manage training for these events with a family, and what does that support look like?

  • What keeps Jack going back for more?

  • We close with some parting wisdom: 1) reach for big, audacious goals, 2) put in the work, and 3) don’t be afraid of failure.

Resources Mentioned

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62. On Finding Motivation in Loving the Journey with Ultra-marathoner Jack Hsueh

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2022Kathy OnetoRight Success, Right Effort, Right Aspiration