22. On Ditching Imposter Syndrome with Clare Josa

Overview

Join me for this brilliant and action-packed episode with Clare Josa, an expert on and author of, “Ditching Imposter Syndrome.” We talk about the definition of imposter syndrome and why so many of us, especially high performers, suffer from it, why it’s helpful to distinguish between imposter syndrome and self doubt, and why we need to shift from judging to evaluating. Clare also offers some great tips on how we as leaders can support employees with imposter syndrome and how we as individuals can start to gain back our personal power. And as Clare passionately rallies at the end of our conversation: “Do something. Please, I implore you! Take one action in the next 24 hours to move you towards setting yourself free from imposter syndrome.” You can do something about imposter syndrome, and thankfully Clare shows us the way.

I loved this conversation, Clare, and your book! Thank you for doing this work and helping us all find a path to being the powerful leaders we can all be.

More about Our Guest

Clare Josa has been a leadership mentor since 2003. She’s the author of eight books, including Dare To Dream Bigger and Ditching Imposter Syndrome. She certified as an NLP Trainer in 2003 and is also a formally-trained Meditation and Yoga Teacher, a Reformed Engineer and the former Head of Market Research for one of the UK's most disruptive companies. She was awarded a First Class Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering and German by the University of Sheffield (UK) and Ruhr Universität Bochum (Germany) and spent ten years in automotive engineering, specialising in lean manufacturing and six sigma.

Clare qualified as an NLP Trainer in 2003, and is certified to train people up to Practitioner and Master Practitioner level. In 2004 she qualified as a Language and Behaviour Consultant, specialising in identifying the hidden motivational traits we give away in our choice of words (based on Naom Chomsky’s work). In 2008 she qualified as a Meditation Teacher and in 2015 she completed her Yoga Teacher Training. She is now continuing that training to post-graduate level and will qualify as restorative yoga teacher - essential for those of us who are super-stressed.

She has spent over a decade specialising in empowering passionate world-changers to do the ‘inside work’ so that you can get on with making a difference in the world. As co-founder of the EU VAT Action campaign in 2014, she has had to overcome any remaining ‘visibility’ fears, to stand on international stages (European Parliament, Downing Street, IoD) in front of people who had been studying what she was giving keynotes on for most of their careers. She is regularly interviewed by the international press and has been interviewed by numerous radio and TV stations. She is a member of the UK’s Institute of Directors and she speaks internationally about how to change the world by changing yourself.

Clare lives in Sussex, in the UK, with her husband, their 3 young boys, a bouncy Jack Russell, a totally loopy springer spaniel, and 10 mindful chickens.

Topics Covered

  • We hear Clare’s career journey that brought her to this work on Imposter Syndrome. What I love about Clare’s story is how she started her career based on an interest she had (engineering, German), and at certain moments realized through her experiences what she was really interested in next and in the moment (people, wanting to make a bigger difference), and she then made a shift. I also love that part of Clare’s journey included a sabbatical, which many know I heartily endorse.

  • So, what is Imposter Syndrome really? Clare lets us know. First, it’s not a syndrome unless it’s clinically diagnosed and is really Imposter Phenomenon, but Syndrome is often used as a shorthand. Clare’s definition is: "It is the gap between who we see ourselves as being and who we think we need to be to achieve our goals or dreams." We create coping strategies to deal with this.

  • Why it’s important to distinguish between Imposter Syndrome vs. being on your next growth curve, say. A key distinction with Imposter Syndrome is that it operates on an identity level (it’s about who I am) vs. self doubt (can I or can I not do something). If imposter syndrome is at play, we often self-sabotage and impact our performance. If we are experiencing self doubt, we can get skilled up to address our skills gap.

  • We talk about why so many of us, especially high performers suffer from imposter syndrome. A major driver of imposter syndrome is comparison. Social media doesn’t help! Nor does the impact of chronic stress and that’s been exacerbated during the pandemic.

  • Clare talks about an important distinction to free ourselves from Imposter Syndrome and that is to shift from judging to evaluating.

  • What are signals we should be looking out for ourselves or if we are working with employees. Clare shares her 4 P’s: Paralysis, Procrastination, Perfectionism, and People-Pleasing.

  • Is dealing with imposter syndrome just an inside job? There are things that companies and managers can do to support employees. For example, companies need to look at their cultures. If a culture is highly competitive, it can be triggering, as it’s an environment that is more about judging than evaluating. We also need to get leaders and organizations to be more comfortable with dealing with feelings. Clare also wants to break the taboo around it, so that employees can ask for help around imposter syndrome and not feel shame in doing so. Rather by finally addressing it, people can fulfill their full potential.

  • How can leaders help? Start by sharing your own experiences first, giving permission for this to be okay. In exploring it with an employee, you might open a conversation, as Clare suggests, but saying, "I’m not judging you here. I’d just like to explore what’s really going on below the surface. [Ask]: ’I can’t do that because.... I haven’t done that yet because....’ And, look for skills gaps vs. identity evaluation.

  • What’s a quick tip we can all do if we are experiencing imposter syndrome? First, ground yourself; go through neutral. "So one of the things that I teach people to do is to ground the stress energy. So a simple grounding breath." Grow to 60 seconds of breathing to reset your stress response. And then ask Clare’s magic question: "What do I want instead?" I love this question, too! So helpful to get you to reframe and explore.

  • In summary: "You’ve gone through neutral. What do I want instead? That’s the question I use with clients to turn from problem to solution. And by making it something within your control and specific that you can take action on you’re reclaiming your personal power. Yeah, and that sounds so super simple. And yet it’s incredibly potent and has the power to change your life forever."

  • Clare’s final piece of advice - Do something! Take action! Don’t live with this any longer. You can do something about it.

  • Clare is working on her 2021 Imposter Syndrome study as a follow-on to her 2019 study. I’m very curious to learn about her findings, which she says are already interesting given the impact of the pandemic.

Resources Mentioned

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22. On Ditching Imposter Syndrome with Clare Josa

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