19. On Keeping Your Energy & Spirit Intact with Leslie Forde

Overview

Joining me on this episode of the podcast is Leslie Forde, founder of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs, which researches and illuminates stress, self-care and growth for Moms, and founder of Allies @ Work, which helps employers use data to retain working parents and create inclusive workplaces where caregivers can thrive. Leslie is shedding the light on just how broken our current system is in supporting caregivers, both women and men, and offers great insights and tips for both companies and individuals to find a more sustainable way to achieve successful outcomes in both work and life.

I could have talked with Leslie for a long time! And in this conversation she shares a lot of great advice for individuals, leaders, and companies to consider to help us all have a more sustainable work-life. Leslie shares how the solution doesn’t lie in working harder or just being ruthless about prioritization; we also need to be ruthless about carving out space for those things that feed us and regenerate us so our energy and spirit can be intact. 

I was thrilled to hear that Leslie is hearing progress from companies and an openness to changing corporate cultures to support “self care” and caregivers.

Thank you for your important work, Leslie, and helping individuals, managers, and companies find the way towards more sustainable work-life happiness. And thank you for sharing your advice and insights with us in this episode!

More about Our Guest

Leslie Forde is the founder of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs and Allies at Work, which, respectively, researches and illuminates stress, self-care, and growth for Moms and helps employers use data to retain working parents.

Leslie has used research to inform growth and innovation strategy for over 20 years. She’s held brand management, product marketing and business development roles in consumer technology and products, market research, media and publishing companies.

Most recently, she held leadership positions at Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, Care.com and CSpace (an Omnicom market research agency.) She began her brand management career at Bausch & Lomb and Xerox.

Her writing about parenting, motherhood and equity has appeared in The Washington Post, Slate, Parents Magazine and her website, Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs among other publications.

She’s been quoted in Fast Company, US News & World Report, HerMoney, Fairy God Boss, Livingly and several other outlets.

Topics Covered

  • Leslie is one of the rare and lucky people who at a young age knew what she wanted to do for work. She dug into her career and expected it to grow in a linear fashion until she experienced burnout at one stage after having her second child and when she got laid off early in the pandemic.

  • What put her on a new path was realizing she was burned out and that she had stopped being creative. Both led her to creating the Mom's Hierarchy of Needs framework, which inspired her and other women to look differently at how they spend their time.

  • How did Leslie know she was burnt out? She notes that she was exhausted, she was forgetting things, and people were noticing that she wasn't looking well. Yet, as many of us do, she didn't realize she was burnt out, ignored the signals, and dug in further, because working harder is the answer, right?!

  • Leslie shared that it took her over 2 years to recover from burnout and that she made some changes as she re-entered the workforce, downshifting her role and negotiating a 4-day work week.

  • What is the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs? Inspired by Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, at the bottom are those things that are foundational - for Mom's this is children’s well-being, then their activities and learning and development, and then the household. The next level are professional roles and work. Finally at the top are those things related to our mental, physical, and emotional health, essentially self care. Leslie defines self care to include sleep, movement, managing stress, healthy relationships with adults, learning and growth, and fun.

  • Leslie talks about the importance of creating breathing space and making time for oneself in a culture, especially for mothers, where you are “never done” and discretionary time disappears.

  • I love how Leslie shares that it is in creating space for herself that she finally found her  creativity and that ideas began to spark for her again. I think this is so important for all of us, no matter how creativity gets expressed in our lives.

  • We talk about how “self care” may not be the best term, because so many people think it's self-indulgent when the things on Leslie's list of self-care are really must haves to sustain oneself. As I say, “it’s self-critical care.”

  • Don’t just get ruthless about prioritization, get ruthless about the things at the top of the pyramid, these self-care elements. And know that it can be an iterative process to learn what will work best for you. You need to be diligent about regeneration as you work. Know that you will be your best self and deliver better work when your energy and spirit are intact.

  • Leslie shares tips on how she manages her morning to both create time for her self care elements and also to best utilize her time. She also advocates for having back-up plans to fit these elements into your days, as emergencies always pop up.

  • I asked Leslie what The Future of Work looks like with caregivers at the center. She counsels that if we can make work work for moms, it will make work better for all

  • Leslie also offers smart tips for employers, sharing what she's hearing in her research and in her work with companies, like the importance of offering flexibility and creating psychological safety for caregivers to have discussions around their needs.

  • I was thrilled to have Leslie share that she is seeing companies take action, including engaging her and her work with the Allies @ Work program, and be open to changing corporate cultures to support caregivers and self care for both women and men.

  • Leslie’s final piece of advice: 1) find something that allows you to create space for yourself  everyday and not be “always on,” and 2) learn to set boundaries at work and band with others, if necessary, to feel safe in doing so.

Resources Mentioned

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19. On Keeping Your Energy & Spirit Intact with Leslie Forde

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2021Kathy OnetoRight Effort, Right Aspiration