167: Mark Crowley on Why the Way We Manage People Is Unsustainable

2025
Written By Kathy Oneto

Overview

A “popular” HR metric people like to look at is employee engagement. But I’ve always thought this data isn’t that useful and have wondered if this is the best data point to focus on to understand how people really feel about their work.

But if not this metric, where do we focus instead? 

Today’s guest argues that we need to overhaul our typical management culture if we want to build flourishing teams. What he calls “leading with both mind and heart” creates environments employees want to be part of, where they belong and feel supported. We talked about why the way we manage people today is unsustainable — and what leaders must do differently. 

More About Our Guest

Mark C. Crowley is a leadership consultant, speaker, acclaimed podcast host and bestselling author of Lead from the Heart. His new book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

  • Why employee engagement metrics have failed to improve in over a decade

  • The case for shifting from engagement to wellbeing as the true measure of workplace success

  • The critical role managers play in driving both engagement and wellbeing

  • Why the way we manage people today is unsustainable—and what leaders must do differently

  • Practical ways leaders can create belonging and foster human connection in hybrid workplaces

Learn more about Mark Crowley:

Resources Mentioned

Thanks for Listening!

  • Send me ideas for what you’d like to hear on the podcast, or a question that might be read and answered here on the show! Email me at podcast@SustainableAmbition.com

  • Get my curated bi-weekly Sustainable Ambition Forum newsletter. Sign up here

Kathy Oneto
Previous

168: Dana Miranda: The Intertwined Realities of Work, Money, and Wellness
Next

166: Zach Mercurio: The Power of Mattering at Work and in Life